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HaRav Yishai Natan –
Back when we had the egg shortage, eggs were selling for over $12 a dozen. One grocery store was having a sale for $8 a dozen, with a limit of two dozen per customer. I had already bought two dozen on the sale, but I wanted to stock up on more. My brother had just bought a few dozen eggs and said he was not planning on buying any more even with the sale. I asked him if he could buy me another two dozen if he planned on going to that grocery store within the next day or two, while they still had the sale. I told him that I would pay him $20. The $16 plus an extra $4. He said no problem, and got me the eggs. Baruch Hashem, eggs are back to a normal price now. However, my brother was recently learning the halachot of ribbit and thinks that what we did may have been assur.
Was what we did a problem of ribbit?
Purchaser or Agent
First, we need to establish whether your brother is considered to have bought the eggs for himself for $16 and then sold them to you for $20, or whether he was your agent to buy the eggs. If he was your agent, he laid out the $16 for you, which created a loan, and you then paid him back $20. If it was the first case, what you did was fine. If it was the second case, what you did was assur. So, was he a purchaser, or was he your agent?
Let’s see what would have happened if, after he bought the eggs, you decided that you did not want them anymore. Would you have been allowed to retract? If he was simply purchasing the eggs for himself and then selling them to you, you would have been able to retract and decide that you no longer wanted to buy them. If he was your agent, however, you would not have been able to retract.
Furthermore, what would have happened if the eggs broke before you picked them up? Who would take the loss? If he was simply a purchaser, they were his eggs and it would be his loss. If he was your agent, they were your eggs and he was a shomer on them. If they broke because of an ones that occurred, he would be patur from paying, and the loss would be yours because you would still have to pay him back.
His Status
We discussed this topic two weeks ago and concluded that Maran (Hoshen Mishpat 183:4) holds like the Ramah, that it depends on how and what you said to him when you told him to get you the eggs. If you said, “Go buy them, and I’ll buy them from you for more,” then he would be considered a purchaser. You would be able to retract, and you would not incur the loss if the eggs broke. Likewise, in your case, there would be no issue of ribbit.
However, in your case, you said, “Go buy them for me, and I’ll pay you back and give you more.” Therefore, Maran would hold that he was your agent. You would not have been able to retract, and the loss would have been yours if the eggs broke. Likewise, when he paid the money for you, it became a loan. When you paid him back more than he laid out, it created a problem of ribbit[1].
Ribbit DeRabanan or Min Hatorah
Now let’s discuss how to correct the ribbit that was already given. The rule regarding returning ribbit is that if it was avak ribbit, meaning that it was assur only M’deRabanan, he would not have to return the $4 according to the strict law. However, he would be hayav to return it latzet yedeh Shamayim. If it was ribbit min haTorah, however, Bet Din can force him to return the money.
In your case, it seems that this was ribbit ketzutzah, meaning full-fledged ribbit min haTorah. Even though this was not the typical loan with interest that we usually think about, once your brother laid out the money for you, it became a regular loan. Since you stated beforehand that you would pay him more—meaning you were kotzetz the interest that would be given—he would therefore be required to return the extra $4[2].
What To Do In The Future
For the future, if you want to do this again, there are a few ways to make it mutar.
First, you can tell him that he is buying the eggs for himself and that you will then buy them from him for more, as we discussed above. In that case, he would be a purchaser and not your agent.
You can also give him the $20 beforehand. In that case, he would not be lending you any money, and there would be no ribbit problem at all regardless of how you said it.
Another option would be to tell him that you are giving him the extra $4 as payment for the effort he needs to exert to get you the eggs and to watch them until you pick them up. You would need to be careful in this last case that the amount is reasonable for the effort involved. If the extra amount is more than the effort is worth, it could once again be viewed as payment for the loan and create a problem of ribbit.
[1] Even Rav Moshe Feinstein, who held that he might be considered a purchaser, which would make your case mutar, only said this because he was unsure which opinion to follow. Therefore, the buyer could not take money from him by claiming that he was his agent. However, Rav Moshe would agree that there is still a possibility that this was ribbit. He would be mahmir here and it would need to be corrected.
[2] To argue that the loan itself was only $16, while the additional $4 was payment for his effort, is questionable, since this was not specified or necessarily understood beforehand.